Today on Taco Chats and Laugh Attacks, we dive into how creating content can lead to burnout when you chase likes and followers. So don't forget to like and follow us while we tell you not to.- I get these notices from Spotify. I don't know if you're getting them too. The one I got, I got one the other day from Spotify. It was like all this stuff about how important it is to start incorporating video in your uploads. And I thought, Spotify does video? And I didn't quite understand it. And I probably should have taken the time to look at it, but I just got busy and moved on with whatever it was. But when you think about how things like TikTok have transitioned to longer videos, you can now do vertical videos, there's more of a search to it. There's all this business that they're getting into. If you notice it, when you go to your search engine, you start searching for something, the first thing you see are videos. It's kind of jacking the algorithm of Google's sponsorship sort of criteria. That's one of those things where we start to see that, a couple of things. There was this research that came out recently that showed that less and less people are reading these days and that more people will, if they don't get the information they need from a video within just the first 30 to 45 seconds, they either move within the video to get the more that they need, but there's just this impatience to get the answer. Which I think is also why AI is so, like ChatGPT, because people are just, I can just ask a question, get the answer. I don't have to go back and validate it. I don't have to do anything with it. I just get the answer. I don't have to think critically about how do I want my, the cover letter of my CV to look like. I can just say, "ChatGPT hears about me," and it does it. Right? I have some beef with that. I think that's sort of a, I think that's a fall of humanity that we're not doing more critical thinking. So one of the things that the SEO does and these things that I pay for is it gives you all this information. So it's talking about how these different platforms are now starting to incorporate video. There's a lot of self-criticism that comes up when you start doing videos of yourself opposed to just writing a blog article. So it made me think about what we're doing here and how we're doing it. And I thought, as a mental health practitioner, I should be better, as I'm shitting on myself, I should be better at recognizing these anxieties that keep me from doing different things. The fact that I know that there's anxieties there and that I'm not doing anything about it is so self-shaming. (laughs)- That's funny.- It's like, do as I say, not as I do.- Yeah. - Right? And so we are putting this thing together and I thought a lot about some of the stuff that we've done and the stuff that we've avoided. And then I started looking at how often I feel like, oh, we need to put this out there, we need to have more people see it, we need to share it. There's all these times where even to the extent where I was in one of my meetings, my PhD meetings the other day, and it was for a new class that we're taking and we had to go through, and rather than talk about the research that we're doing and where we're from and all that kind of stuff, we had to talk about what one of our other cohorts, how they have inspired us. And we've talked about Evan, who's in my cohort, and I had shared our podcast with him.- He gave awesome feedback.- Yeah, it's the best feedback ever, right? It took me a moment to figure out what he was saying. So intelligent.- Right, academia, we're always in academia. It's harder to not do it than to do it. One of the things that he said was he talked about me and how, in a nutshell, it was that when I'm looking into something, I go as far as I can to become, not the expert, but to be able to talk about it in an intelligent manner, which was really nice.- One of the things that I thought was the funniest about it was that he mentioned that some of the different things that I do, but he also mentioned that I have this podcast. And man, I just reeled. When he said that, I was like, I don't want people to know that, right?'Cause then all of a sudden in the chat, it's like, Danny's got a podcast? There's a pod, where is it? How do I get to it? And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no.- So this is all virtual?- This is virtual, yeah. And then I went from, oh my God, he just shared that I have a podcast with people, and now it was like this, all I could think about was people in my cohort listening to it and thinking how absolutely just stupid these guys sound. It sort of goes back to the idea, when we were talking about when you're an artist and you're doing your, we would be in my studio or we would be at Winter Street and there'd be a room full of people talking about how much they like my art and one person across the room would say something critical and I'd pick that out and that was suddenly, that was everything. It was so loud. And I realized what it was when this happened and then fast forward a couple weeks or a week or so and I watched this video, which I need to give you what it is so you have it. I watched this YouTube video of an interview of a psychiatrist who has a YouTube channel, it's really successful. Some of the stuff he was saying, I was like, oh, that's exactly what I thought. We don't live in a world mentally where we give priority to positive things, positive feedback, right? Because positive feedback is like the baseline. That's where we should be. We should always feel in this baseline because we live in this world of fight or flight, right? That part of our brain that when we hear criticism or we even self-criticize, that that's a natural way for us to say, okay, there's danger, right? And so we're hyper-focused on it. What's kind of funny too, and I explain this a lot to my clients as well, is that the part of our brain that is that fight or flight piece is so overpowerful because we don't need to be in that level anymore, right? We don't need to worry about, am I gonna be taken down by a saber tooth tiger, right? Am I gonna have food for the end of the day? I've got these different pieces that we don't have to do much. So we have this tool in our brain that is like, it's like a Hemi engine in a VW Beetle, right? It's just too much. And so it compensates. And so these things like, hey, did y'all know that Danny has a podcast becomes this like, I'm sweating.- Is it your reputation that we're fighting, fight or flighting for or?- No, well, that I don't know. I mean, that could be a lot of different places. I think it has to do with expectation. So this is what I was watching. And when I watched that, it really confirmed a lot of what I've been doing for the last two weeks and sort of how I've been feeling and things like that. And that's the part of it is that that's kind of the experiment that I've been playing with is I recognize these things and I'm like, why? Why do people do two or three videos and then quit, right? Why do people get really big and then get totally like, I have to go on a break. So these are all those questions that I kept thinking about. And so when we're doing this and we're so adamant about not making it a part of that, sort of, I gotta share it, I gotta get listeners, I gotta get views, I gotta say, right? Doing it for the, doing it to do it. This interview really reaffirmed all that and really validated what you and I are doing and what the healthy part of it is. And it's the basic premise is that we spend a large portion of our lives doing things based on an expectation. And then where burnout fits is where the input and the expectation are really far apart.- Is the expectation worse today than it was?- I think it is.- Yeah, because obviously there's this new standard of the way things should be done and everybody's expected to fall within that.- Right, and so here you go to YouTube and you see all these videos on how to do a podcast, how to do, how to make, how to get 10,000 followers in 45 days. It's like the expectation is I'm gonna watch this video, I'm gonna do what it says, and the expectation is this is what it's gonna come out to. And he goes into a lot of this detail about what we can and can't control, which is so funny because I spend so much of my time with my clients asking them, what part of that can you control? So one of the things that I do is what's called reality therapy. So the nickel to our reality therapy says that we can control our actions, we can control our thoughts, we can't control our behaviors, we can't control how we feel. They're the product of it. So the way that they talk about it in reality therapy is imagine a car, a front-wheel drive car. I can control the front two wheels, the back two wheels follow. Back two wheels are behaviors and how we feel, physical behaviors and psychological behavior, basically. And so what I work a lot with clients are is that the way we turn that car, which way we go is based on perceptions from our past, basically, in a sense. And I'm sure if there were people that were reality therapists were gonna listen to this, they'd be like, this guy's an idiot, he doesn't know, that's not the point, I just wanted to give you kind of some idea of what kind of that means. So we think about that car. And we think about the action, what we can and we can't do. And so the expectation is almost like we're trying to guess, or at least predict the future based on our action. And we can't do that, that's not real. That's not reality. We can do something and then we can do something else. But we can't do something and create a future for it without, we don't have any control over that. So it made me think about that a lot. This whole idea of the input and the expectation becoming the burnout. And I can't tell you how many times I've told my kids, you're gonna get out of it what you put into it, which is true, but in a way it's kind of not. You're gonna get out of it what you get out of it. And what you put into it isn't necessarily gonna always be a straight line. And you'll never know what that line is. It could be a lot of different things to finally get to a certain output that might meet your expectation. But it goes back to when you and I were talking about we started our businesses. Like when I started my studio and you started working doing your thing and how it was sort of this, you get to a point and it's like I gotta do the next thing. I gotta do the next thing. Next thing you know, you've got a 6,000 square foot studio six employees, tons of bills, all these things and you're still not happy.- You're not doing what you set out to do.- Yeah.- Well, at least in my case.- Right. - Yeah.- And it's this sort of, we fall away from the expectation. And so it made me think a lot about a couple of things. Parenting. But it also made me think about that because we're doing this with absolutely zero expectation, that that's almost like the healthiest way to do it.- Yeah.- And I think that's the part that when you and I talk about what is this gonna do? What are we gonna do with it? If anything, it's how do you put something in the world to show that it's okay to do it and not have an expectation? Because then what happens is once we put an expectation to it, A, it becomes work.- Yeah.- There's room for burnout. And we get farther away from what we originally wanted to do.- Yeah.- And it's, and this interview was like so appropriate right before I sat down with you.'Cause it made me think also, well, us meeting last time. What was that, three weeks ago? It seemed like a long time ago.- It feels like a long time ago. It wasn't in the morning and it wasn't with tacos.- And that was a, I think that was a, I think about what this was telling me in this interview, we were trying to get it in there without letting it be what we wanted it to be originally. We changed it, I mean, straight off the bat, the most simplest things. We did it in the afternoon on a weekday and we didn't have tacos.- Well, I mean, I think it's, it was a good practice for us to play around 'cause we tried to include AI into the podcast as a guest.- It was funny.- It was pretty funny. It's almost like we're constantly being influenced on what our product should be. It's almost like it's forcing you to say, to think like an influencer or someone that makes money off of this.- Right.- So it's sad because then you realize 99% of stuff that's out there on the web, even the interview that you watched, it's all to get plays and hits and comments and all these things. So it's like, I mean, did they have a sponsor? Did they pause and say, hey, try my new whatever?- They were both selling something.- Yeah.- It's just fine, I mean, business is business.- Yeah, but I feel like we always come back to this. It's like, it's really sad because it's like, well, everything is monetized. Every single penny, every second you're watching is so focused on like, how do we sell something to this person since we got their attention?- Yeah, the attention economy.- Exactly.- Like I literally, I cannot remember what we talked about. Like what, if I brought something to sort of talk about. But that was sort of, 'cause like when I got here, you're tired and you seem a little more awake now.- Yeah, coffee and Coke and a taco.- Yeah. But--- Coca-Cola.- Yeah, we get a little Coke in here.(both laughing) So one of the things that this made me think about was, and not that we have to have this, but I think it's sort of, I think it's helpful for two reasons. Purpose, right? Purpose I think is, I think it's important for anything you do. You don't have to have, it doesn't have to be a purpose that is like this, I'm doing my part in the universe kind of thing. When we think about purpose, if we were to say, if somebody was to say, what is your podcast about? And I really think that that's something that we should figure out. Not to sell it, but to be able to sort of narrow down what it really is for us. The other thing is it makes it easier to tell people what it's about when they do ask.- Yeah.- Right? What's so funny is I was at one of my uncles turned 70 and we had a little birthday surprise dinner thing that I went to and my dad was there and he had mentioned to me that he had listened to the podcast and it was great'cause he would tell people, oh, Danny has a podcast, you should just listen to this, right? Which is great 'cause he's proud of me. And people look at me and say, oh, what's it about? What do y'all talk about? You don't wanna listen to it.(laughing)- GTA.- GTA. GTA, AI, men's mental health, and the word right.- Right.- Right.- When do we figure that out? Is there a path to that? Is there a standard of when you're supposed to figure that out?- I don't, it doesn't have to be.- Yeah. Season two?- Season.(laughing) Right? But it was fun listening to that video, to that interview and thinking about that and even thinking about it for myself, why is this something that I wanna do?- Yeah.- And I mean, we know, we've talked about that, right? We get to hang out, do our thing. But we get to explore some of these things that are always banging around in our heads and somebody might get a benefit out of it.- Yeah.- You know? I think if I was to put, like how would this, by putting something like this in the world, who does it help? And I can tell you, I don't know who it would help.(laughing) It's definitely not gonna hurt anybody.- Yeah.- But I think I can tell you who I would hope that it would help. I would hope that somewhere in the universe, somebody who is going to be like us, listens to this and can shift away from that in a better way. Does that make sense?- Yeah.- Kind of like listening to this interview, was a real shift in my thinking of this idea of expectation. Because it's not just about, it's not just about what it is we're doing here or what it is I'm doing elsewhere. It's also a reflection of all the things I have done. Like yesterday, my wife and I were rearranging my office. I was putting up some new pictures, cleaning it up. And that gets to me doing videos and the expectation of the world and all the stuff that you see. Because that's this other part, right? It's like there's these different roles. There is a piece of me that is playing with stuff. I am knee deep, headlong in this whole, what does the internet tell me what to do? I'm gonna do it and see. And I'm doing that on purpose. And which is why I'm now $80 in on CapCut. It's why I just bought a $200 new webcam. This is no benefit to anything I have going on in the world other than I just wanna see how it happens. In parallel with this, which I think is kinda cool when I think about it that way.- That's true.- I'm doing this at the same time I'm doing something else. And what's really remarkable is they both are getting the same amount of attention.- Wow.- I have one follower on a new YouTube channel and I've had like four views. I think we've gotten more than that on this podcast in the last 60 days or 30 days.- How much of that is us? Just checking to see if it's still there.- It's possible.- No, I've actually seen the numbers spike here and there. It's like--- It's kinda weird.- I don't know what's going on here. Who's that? Who is that? What are they gonna say?- Yeah. Are they mad at their algorithm?- Yeah.- For putting us in front of them?- So here's what I did, just so you know. So I have private practice. And because of this whole video, this whole idea with the video and how SEO happens and all this stuff like that, I've transitioned from creating, just writing blog articles to where I'm doing more like video blogs and I'm posting those on TikTok. I have no expectation that any of this stuff would ever do well. It has nothing to do with it. I put it on TikTok. I then take it and I put it into a 69 format and put it on YouTube and let that be it. Because then what I do is I take what I talk about in these little vlogs and I create a transcript from it and then I have, and it's just all honesty, I then take it and I give it to Chad Gbini and say, "Hey, can you help me make a blog"based on this transcript?" It basically rewords what I said into a format that follows SEO optimization and I put it on my website. So I have a blog, then I have a video because people do not read anymore.- Yeah.- So all of this stuff that I'm doing is purely based on the information that I've been told by other experts that this is how you stay relevant. And while we have a complete, utter mental health crisis in this world, my calendar's not full. It could be, I guess, and it sort of goes back to that idea of the input to the expectation in that, which I think is a big part of the problem with why a lot of industries get burnout, especially in social work, because the input is, I care about the world and I want the world to heal, and the output never matches.- Yeah.- And we're expecting it to, and this is why social workers burn out so fast. Right? I think that when we approach it, my whole approach on this YouTube TikTok thing with the videos is purely more experimental than anything. You know? Yes, in the back of my mind, I'm like, oh, that'd be great if suddenly I got a bunch of views or whichever, but what, it doesn't matter. At the end of the day, that doesn't matter. You know, the end of the day is, am I able to help somebody that wants to come to my office and make their life better?- Yeah. I mean, it's experimenting, but you're actually putting useful information out there.- And I think that's a part of that. I think that's important. That's why I got back to that question of our purpose.- Yeah.- You know, we could put out trash and just literally sit here and talk for an hour and a half, two hours, and just put that online and let people figure out if they like it or not.- Yeah.- But I think there's a part of us too, that's like, we want this to be meaningful in some way.- Yeah.- 'Cause that's creativity itself, right? Like, what did I say? I always show the world, art is showing the world what the world means for you.- Yeah.- So, that's where all that stuff comes in. What's funny about it is that, you know, my son's, they call it like a mega influencer, I think. And I think he's like at 2.4 million followers now. I know he makes more money than I do. He's 20. It's so funny. I saw this thing, it was an article about this. It's like a professional gambler, I guess. 19 year old. And he's made millions in gambling. He's like figured out how to do it. And it was this article about how he had retired his mother. 19 year old professional gambler retires mother and buys her a $2 million house. I sent it to my son, his birthday was yesterday, he turned 20. I sent it to my son and I said,"You're 20, your mother's still working."That's pathetic."(laughing)- That's awesome. This guy set the standard, you need to meet it. Wow.- But that's it, right? That's the whole thing. All of a sudden I've got a new expectation. Here's the new expectation. And I think what's really funny too, it's really sweet and I think it's great. He was talking to my wife about my little TikTok page. And he was wanting to do a shout out to his 2.4 million followers. And it's because he's like, I think what it is, and this is my, I'm assuming this too. He sees how much time and effort that I'm putting into it. But also just all the, I'm just trying to take the stuff that I've learned over the last whatever number of years and apply it and give it out to the world and say,"Hey, here's what I'm finding."This is what it's saying in the world"that as a parent, we're screwing things up."As an industry of technology, we're screwing things up." And he was like, "Should I shout him out"and get him to see if he can get some followers?" And my wife's like, "No, no, don't do that."He doesn't want that." You know, in anything, it's him looking at it going,"God, I put out a 30-second video"of me dancing around in my bathroom and I get, you know."- No editing, no take two, no adding music, nothing.- Nothing, just I'm gonna sit here and talk about something totally random and stupid. And I'm gonna make $3,000.- Yeah.- And then here's my dad over here with his nine followers on TikTok. I think I'm at nine now.- Oh, wow.- Yeah.- Oh yeah, I followed you today.- Did you? Okay, good. - Or yesterday.- Yeah, so yes, you did. So now I have, I think that's in the nine.- Okay.- And he's like, "Oh," which is nice because it's like he sees, I think it helps him see that there's a value of what he is, he's doing.- Yeah.- But I think it also, it sort of shows the world that there are people out there making phenomenal stuff, doing a hard, hard job working at it, putting everything they got in there, and they're not getting anything.- Yeah.- And it makes them feel less them because it's the expectation of the viral part. What's funny is that when I'm looking at my TikTok videos, I have four new followers, you're one of them, James is one of them.(laughs) I think Zoe's one of them, yeah, and 66 likes. But when I go to my For You page, when I go to the page that's feeding me the information, they're all videos with like thousands and thousands, like 50 and 60 and 100,000 likes.- Mm-hmm.- And that goes back to that whole thing. How many people are out there creating wonderful stuff that's really interesting that I didn't even know how you would go find it? Because even when you go search for it, the top search is only gonna show you the top search.- Yeah.- And it's sad because you think about how much stuff isn't being found or isn't being learned.- If the search engine goes away, we're really lost. We're really not gonna find things, specific things anymore. And I think like on Reels, I'll pass something up and say, "Oh, that was really cool." And if I don't save it, I'll never see it again.- Never see it again.- And so it's mind-boggling how much stuff is out there. And then it's mind-boggling how many times the same thing gets recreated.- And copied and--- Yeah, and then reacted to, and then stitched, and slow-mo'd, turned into a meme, recycled everything. Turned into Arnold Schwarzenegger's voice saying the same thing. Yeah, I don't know if that's on your--- Not on my feed, no.- Oh my gosh, I have songs that are old 80s songs that are being sung by Arnold.- Arnold Schwarzenegger?- Yeah, they just put him in.- There's a guy that I've started listening to, watching some, and he takes hardcore metal and turns it into like yacht rock. It's not all hardcore, it's like his system of the down. It turns that into--- That's funny.- It's pretty good, some are pretty good. I'm like, "This would work."- There I ruined it. Oh man, he'll go and take Johnny Cash singing a 50 Cent song.- I have seen that.- They're great. They're really good. I mean, it's almost like, wow. And this guy was doing it before. AI voiceovers were a big thing. It might have been a thing when he started it, but it's like all of a sudden, it's a thing. That's all he's cranking out is just, yeah, Depeche Mode singing a Britney Spears song.- That's the humor, that's the emotional part of it, where it's connecting to us because it's the humor part of it.- And the nostalgia of the way you remember it, but then they go and just ruin it. It's, yeah. I love that.- That's kind of what we're doing, I think, with podcasting.- Yeah.- Well, we're still trying to figure out what we're doing.- On all fronts.- At least we're more confident on this one.- Confident we don't know what we're doing?- Confident we have the lowest experience.- Yes, I love it.- Better than Los Angeles.- Is it Jenkins?- I think so.