When you get into that place, the rest of the world disappears. You're in this place where it's just that creativity happening. And it has a chemical reaction in our brain that is very satisfying. It's a dopamine hit, really. Today on Taco Chats and Laugh Attacks, we're diving into the magic of creative flow, why it feels so good, and how solving problems can spark some of the best ideas. Because every great idea starts with the right ingredients. Just like the perfect taco. Denise and I went to Barcelona over the summer. It was so fun. And I've always loved Pablo Picasso's art. He's kind of always been sort of a mystery. I didn't really know much about him. And so I wanted to find a biography about him and read it on the way there. And I actually read some other books on the way there that I didn't get a chance to read. But while I was there, I started reading this Life with Picasso, by Francois Guillaume in Carleton Lake. Francois Guillaume is the woman he had his two children with. She's also the only one--I think that she's touted as the only woman who left him. In Barcelona, they have this Pablo Picasso Museum. And a little bit of history on Pablo Picasso was that he was exiled from-- he left Spain because--for political reasons, but lived in France all afterwards, leading up to World War II and after World War II. The book's fantastic. And it really paints a pretty interesting picture of Picasso when you look at it in two kind of regards, one being the mental health sort of thought process. He was rather narcissistic and in a way kind of very, very kind of toxic masculinity in a way, the way he treated women, the way he kind of even treated Francois Guillaume. The interesting thing is that in Spain, when you go to the museum, you learn a lot about his relationship with his father through his art. And as you kind of go through and you see the different things he does, you kind of get this idea that he was dealing with a lot of grief, but he was also dealing with sort of like what we were talking about earlier, kind of like how the way you're raised can determine how you deal with things later in life. Right? And it's funny because there's other aspects to it that are really pretty interesting. Like he had this whole blue period. I think everybody had a blue period at some point. We're on this tour and they're going through and they're talking about what kind of was the catalyst to it. Was a friend of his died by suicide and then he stayed in this blue period for a long period of time. And so there's this whole connotation that he was in a blue period because he was grieving. Right? I was with my wife and one of her colleagues, we were at a business thing, and I turned around and I go, wonder if it's maybe just because he could only get a hold of blue paint. Yeah. Right? The other piece of his sort of story that's interesting is the creative piece of it and how in that book, that life with Picasso, you get a pretty good idea of his creative sort of patterns. When he would work on things, how he would work on it, some of the ways he would go about it, the way he would teach other people to do the work and get them in their places. It was really kind of interesting because I had just finished reading another book before I left for Spain. It's called Creativity, Flow and the Psychology of Discovery and Invention. I'm not even going to try to pronounce this cat's last name, but it's a well-known sort of book, I guess, in certain circles. Reading that and then reading Picasso was pretty interesting because you think about that creative flow. Have you ever heard of that, creative flow? Yeah, I've heard flow, yeah. Not like hustle and flow, but... Oh, that's what I was referring to. Is that what you were thinking? Yeah, yeah. I don't know if that's the same thing as the flow, but... So creativity flow, you know how when you start working on something that requires a certain level of creativity or you're creating, right? I always love that word creativity because I think about that people who are being creative, they're creating. And so you're making something in the world. When you feel that passion of making something in the world, I think it's... I really, I think that's where, like, that's the place where humanity sits the most because you're putting something new into the world you're creating, right? Opposed to tearing something down or destroying something, right? So flow is basically when you're in that creative mode and time doesn't matter. You're outside of world is not in existence. You're in this place of just pure creativity. Hyper-focused. Hyper-focused. Yeah. Where, whether you're editing something or you're in the middle of photographing something or you're painting something or you're building something, right? When you get into that place, the rest of the world disappears. You're in this place where it's just that creativity happening. And it has a chemical reaction in our brain that is very satisfying. It's a dopamine hit, really. And so one of the things that that book talks about is sort of the creativity of invention over time, which is pretty interesting when you think about, you know, you hear about these people back in the 1900s and it's like here's this farmer who also invented tires. Oh, and he also owned a, you know, cookie business and sold that to-- it's like how these people do all these different things. It's because there's so few people. So you have these people get in this creative flow and there's so many things they can do. There's so many new things and they're creating these new, new things and they get kind of addicted to this creative flow and it just keeps happening, keeps happening, keeps happening, right? And so--but now everything is like we're just rehashing ideas. So it's harder to get to that creative flow sometimes. And I think that's where like for like us where we've been, you know, you're actively-- and I still do creative stuff, but even if I'm like woodworking or I'm making a stupid video for my practice or I'm writing, there's a period in those where there's flow. I think for people that don't have that or haven't experienced the way kind of like we've experienced it is that like when I'm at home and I have a lot of writing to do, let's say I start writing at 9. If I know I have something that I have to be at at 10 or 11, I can't even start to do the writing because what will happen is I'll start writing and then I'll hit that flow and then I'll either miss the appointment or it disrupts the flow and so when I come back, it's a completely different piece that I'm writing. Yeah. I was going to ask you about that, the break in flow, and the expectation. So like if you say, "Hey, I put out this amazing video that I had a blast putting together," but now someone else says, "Hey, do that again," and you kind of get feedback to where, "Oh yeah, that worked. This didn't work that way," so then you're customizing. It's like you lose the flow or I'm not sure. Can you gain it back? Can you-- Not that same place. I don't think at that same place, but I think you can start anew from it. What made me think about this was when you had texted me and said that you've been doing a lot of editing and you really enjoyed it. That was the thing that I wanted to know more about. I was really curious about that because I know you said that's the thing you like to do the most or that's what got you into doing it. Tell me what it was you said again about editing. I basically started off as an editor. I was editing before I even knew what editing was. I had two VCRs at home with the cassette player and a CD player and every single thing-- maybe not CDs, I'm not sure--but I had every single machine I could find and every RCA and S-video cable and everything, and I was basically making a video for my cousin that was off--I don't know where he was-- but he was in the Army and he was coming back, and I'm like, "Oh, I want to show him what he's missed," or just kind of catch him up to where everybody's grown and all that. So I ended up making a video for him, and that was very rewarding. That goes to flow. So basically I eventually got into television. I hung out with all the editors, and I was just stuck to it. It became a passion of mine to edit, but then I also knew I was going into a world where you kind of need to do a little bit of everything. I guess what I told you was that I only picked up the camera because I knew what I wanted to edit, and so then that led me into, "Oh, I only picked up the microphone because I knew what I needed for my edit. I only got into music because I knew what I needed for my edit." I just kind of started doing every single thing just so that I could have it for my edit, and eventually I just kind of--editing, it just kind of wasn't even that thing that I did anymore. And then you hire kids, you hire younger people, and they come in with this new energy, and they get all this awesome feedback, and it kind of makes you feel like,"Okay, well, I guess I already lived my time as an editor, and now it's this guy's turn." And, you know, hey, I want to nurture that and help them because I had people that helped me along the way. As we've gotten busier, I've pretty much had to pick back up on editing, and it's actually made me realize that that's what I've always wanted to do, and I've gotten away from it for 30 years. Like, I've just been doing everything, but--well, I still do the edit, but I'm spread thin. I don't leave myself enough time to actually do it because I'm doing everything else. Or I'm editing while on the job for something else. Don't let my clients hear that, but-- They don't have to know. I mean, I don't think any of them are listening to our podcast. You sure? Well, no, I'm not. I haven't looked at our stats. We could have millions of followers now. Yeah, by now, yeah. We wouldn't even know. Yeah, we would. Our mailbox is full with hundreds of offers. Offers to stop. So, yeah, I mean, I think I realized that's where my flow is. And I've been in a flow state for a few weeks now. I'm really enjoying it. I'm wondering, is it going to wear down? Am I going to stop enjoying this? But I think as long as I can focus just on that, man, I'm loving it. And I truly do feel the flow. When you were doing it, I'm assuming there was a point in time where you sort of were looking back at something or were kind of evaluating what you had to do or whichever, and you thought, you know what, this is really what I like to do. Tell me, when did that happen? Where I actually realized it, my wife and I, we do puzzles. We get a thousand-piece puzzle, and we just work on them and have a blast. I realized when I was putting the puzzle pieces together, I was like, oh, this is like editing, and I really enjoy this. And then it actually made me enjoy the puzzle that much more and realize, oh, that's what I'm doing with editing. That's my thing. That's my problem-solving skill is like, okay, we've got all these pieces. How are we going to put them together? And so I have systems on how to set everything the right way but then still enjoy the process. And so I think we talked about systems when we were trying to do this podcast where I was like, okay, I think I figured out the workflow. I like that because I need those boundaries to say, okay, this is when you know you're done and have fun while you're doing it and not necessarily just say, oh, we got a full episode done. Where's the happiness? It's not that. It's actually enjoying the process. And so that's what I figured out is the editing is where I'm like, okay, I actually enjoy it all the way through. Even the most frustrating and painful points, like finding music is the worst. It's hard. It's really hard to do. But it's also a really fun challenge because once you get to it and somebody says, hey, man, nice track, you're like, yeah, I know. But you don't -- you know, it's one of those things like I can actually -- I can go and put something together and feel really good about it. But the indecision all the way through and finally getting to that point where like, oh, yeah, that's the one, that's the one, that's the move. And going back and tweaking constantly and doing all that and then finally saying, okay, here, now watch it. Like I won't let people watch a rough edit because it's just to me, it's like I know what's going on, but you don't. Like I'm enjoying that very much where it's actually made me want to go and say, okay, now I think what I want to do is if I do anything outside of that, instead of going and picking up every tool that leads up to that, every tool that leads up to the edit, I think I want to go and direct. And so I want to oversee the project all the way from the beginning to the edit, but without having to pick up all the equipment and try to be a great cinematographer and the best audio recordist or, you know, whatever, all like making the special effects or -- I think the idea is to say, okay, I have this vision for what my final product, what I want it to be. Now I'm going to guide it all the way through because as an editor, you're watching other people's work. You're watching other people's footage. You're watching other -- you're judging someone's -- not judging, but you're going by someone's script. That's how they did it. That's how they chose to do it. They enjoyed putting that piece together. But you always have that, like -- I always have that urge, and I'm like, man, I wish I shot it like this or I would have done it like that. Or I'm trying to not get -- let that urge say, fine, I'm picking back the camera back up. I'm getting it to where I'm like, okay, well, I think with better direction we could actually improve this. Not that there's anything wrong with what everybody's doing, but I feel like I have an idea. Instead of being the Monday morning quarterback saying, well, we should have done this, we should have done that, it would have come out better. Instead of just complaining, you know, because editing is the final stop, you know, when you're creating a video. So instead of complaining at the end of that saying, well, if you would have shot more of this or if you would have -- that lady said something really poignant, but you interrupted her. Or, man, when she was pouring the coffee, like, you didn't -- you didn't, like -- you didn't get the last drop. Or there's little details that you notice as an editor. I want to go back and just kind of oversee it all the way through. And I can see where that's where you can overshoot. Yes. Oh, my gosh, yes. Because it's not that you know what you're going to do with that footage. It's that there's a potential that when I'm editing this, I'm going to be pissed at myself for not getting this. Yeah. When it could have made that -- that one little three-second segment just, you know, like, chef's kiss, all that bullshit. Yeah, it's true. It's true. Yeah. So you overshoot. Yeah, you do -- you overshoot. What's crazy is that I could edit all day, every day, and then probably pick up a camera, and I could probably shoot exactly what I want to shoot. And I might not need to overshoot. I might get exactly what I need. But I can only do that once. Like, I can't do that consistently. I can't just say I'm going to edit a lot, and then I'm just going to -- I'm going to get out and shoot exactly what I want to see. There are guys out there, you know, men and women that can do it. They can go all the way through and shoot the entire thing, direct it, shoot it, edit it, do the whole thing. And they do it very well. I know a couple of guys here in town. But there's those fine details that they're missing. There's little things that they're missing in the end because they're trying to do all this, and they're thinking about the next job, and they're, you know, doing all this. And jobs are -- at least here, jobs are in different phases every day. We have pre-production. We have scheduling. We have shoots. We have postponed shoots. We have edits. We have revisions. We have revisions from five years ago. We have a new version. Hey, suddenly we want this video vertical. Hey, we want this translated to French. And so you're just constantly, like, all over the place. And I feel like focusing on one thing, which is like -- it kind of works against what the world has come to, to where you have to multitask, you have to do multiple things. But I don't know. For me, it's just that idea of, like, I've done this for so long that I think it's just helped me, like, realize, okay, this is the part I like. And this is the part I can excel at. I'm not saying I'm the best. I'm just saying I enjoy the shit out of it. Like, I love it. But I always wonder, like, is that going to go away? Am I going to be lost in flow, miss life, you know? Right. But anyway, yeah, that's kind of been a big realization for me over the year. But the last few months has been, like, the biggest -- I've kind of been put to the fire to actually get a lot of videos out. It's been crazy. Do you start thinking about that that time might -- it will come to an end where you go back to doing the things, like, all the things, like running the business, but then -- Well, I'm still running the business while I edit. That's the nice thing is that I am sitting at a computer all day. I'm not out shooting and having to look at a proposal or make a really big decision while sitting in front of another client. I'm able to do everything at my desk. I'm able to, like -- I still multitask. I still go and do other things. I'm still working on proposals, and I'll do a quick meeting with a client. I'll do that kind of stuff. I think what I worry about is that it's not necessarily that I'll go back to doing everything again. It's more of, will I lose interest in editing and go back to do other things again, and then I'm just looking for that thing again. The new, new thing? Yeah, and I don't know if the editing is a new, new thing, even though it's a new, old thing. Right. Because there are the parts that you just, like, you dread. Like, looking for music is hard to do when you're trying to match what the client is trying to put out there. They have this sample. They have these really vague, you know, instructions on what vibe they want, you know. I want it funky, but I want it electronic, but I want lo-fi, and I also want it to be classical. And you're like, wait, like, it's hard. Like, you get these weird instructions, and then you get it from multiple people. We're dealing with corporations that have, like, 18 people involved in a project. It causes indecision within our company to where, like, I don't know if they're going to like that. So that part frustrates me. I'd rather have the freedom to just do whatever I want and not worry about revisions or what everybody else in the company is going to think. When I had my studio, we would do Christmas cards. My biggest dread was when somebody would say, can I see some fonts that we can pick from? So, and what we did was we created, like, a standard set of cards. Said, here are the cards, here are the fonts. Which ones do you want to use? And anything you wanted custom created, we basically said, you can have it, you can have, you know, we would have one of our assistants create it. But if they wanted me to create it, it was, you can't say a thing, you're going to get what you get. And those were all my favorites. Yeah, of course. The ones I did for your family. Actually, you know, my parents sent me a text the other day with, I'm going to share it with you here real quick. Those were awesome. And you can tell that you had, like, all the creative freedom. Yeah. I guess there was more jokes than anything, like, hey, man, you should put a selfie of yourself on the, you know, back of the card. And you're like, all right, you do it. It's just like, oh, man, that's got to be. And we did it, like, for, like, everyone. I always put, was it like everyone had my picture on the back of your card? I love it. Was it your mom was like, what is this picture? Yeah. Here we go. So, this is a card that I did for my family ages ago. And there's, I think you can scroll, there's multiple photos there. These are awesome. But it would be like, you know, they would say, can you come help us? Can you come take pictures? This is, it's the Clark family cranberry sauce. My grandmother, when my grandmother got it, she was pissed. She's like, the velvet hammer was like, you know, we have a real family cranberry sauce. I'm like, oh. Anyways. It's not in the shape of a can. But they would always like, you know, can you come do our Christmas card or whichever. And it's great. You know, I love doing it for them. But it was like, I think because all year long I was dealing with so many sort of fake moments. Right? Portrait moments that are like, you know, here's me and my, you know, my spouse and my three kids. And we're sitting on the scouts and we're all clean and we're all doing our thing. That was sort of, this is, they're never like this. Yeah. And so, when I would do those, it was like, you got to really see, you know, what was going on. Right? And I think that, and the people that you give these cards to, that's who you are to them, who you really are. Yeah. You know? But that was one of our rules, is that if you wanted one of these. So, we would have all the samples out and people are like, oh, I love this. This is so funny. Can you do something like this? We can, but you don't get to choose what it is. Yeah. You can give me some ideas of what you want to do and then I'll go from there. Right? And we'll find it. Yeah. I mean, I did ones where there was like, we had a, I had one where we had a family and they were like gorging on fruitcake and the kids hated fruitcake and so they literally were like gagging when they were taking these. And you got pictures of them gagging? That's awesome. So good. So good. Yeah. Or like when you guys came and Ben's got his. Yeah. My wife bought, was it jeans, I guess? It was some pants. Or they were the shoes. Jeans. They were jeans. And they still had the security tag on the leg. Yeah. He was very upset about it. And y'all were trying to hide it. Like, no, no, no. Yeah. You made a photo just of that. And this face was so classic. He still talks about that. He loves it so much. I'm glad. So glad. Yeah. No, that's the only way to really enjoy what you do, but that's hard to find the right client or someone to just let you do what you do. Well, and you know, you probably didn't notice this, but I noticed it was that when you started talking about it, it was like you were like in that flow, just even talking about it. I could just tell it was, you probably said more in that piece than you have in any of the other episodes we've talked about. Yeah. Which, that's that creative piece where you're creating something and you're proud of that and you feel like this is a win for the world. That then ties to that whole idea of when we do it because we're wanting to bring the world into us and that doesn't happen. That's that place where it gets real disappointing, I think, for artists. Definitely. Right. Especially when you're doing, in my case, when you're doing corporate videos that almost no one will ever see, at least no one you know will ever see. And you can't, it's not like, oh, let me put this on my Facebook page and show them what I did for this CEO's day in the life. The last thing I can say I did that I'm proud of that I've shown to people is my feature length film and that's it. Like, there's nothing since then and that's been almost 15 years ago. Golly. I mean, it was great because that documentary that I did was a catalyst to get me, in addition to experience and contacts and, you know, relationships and that one personal project that I enjoy doing with no boundaries is the last thing I did. And now the consequences that I'm doing all this stuff for corporate clients that I'm like, okay, well, like I think I said this the other day to, I was talking to a friend an editor and I said, we were talking about client revisions and expectations and all that. And I just stopped him and I said, wouldn't the world be a better place if version one was always the winner that everybody was good with version one. Because you know that, you know, that editor pour their heart into making a perfect video and putting it out there. That's where you kind of, it takes a little bit away from you every time they're like, oh, I don't like that shot or I don't like, I don't like your little, you know, music break that you put here or, you know, in fact, change the music. Like that's like the core of the video. Like so invalidating. Yeah. Yeah. So that changes everything. It's a whole different video and I have to go start over again and my heart's not in it as, as it was. Now I'm doing that on a spite. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. So yeah, I can associate my documentaries like Christmas cards when you have that freedom to just do what you do. Yeah. And it's, and it's ironic that a lot of times that's what you're remembered for. Yeah. That's why people contact you. And it's not like, oh, you know, they didn't contact you because of the mediocre stuff you did for a client. They contact you because of the creative stuff you did for yourself. Yeah. Which is kind of weird. You know, one thing you said was that, you know, like when you were doing the puzzle, you liked it because it was sort of like solving a problem. And I'm wondering, and I thought of this while you were saying that, I think that instead of it being that we're solving a problem, it's, you know, that we're, we're creating the solution. And that when we get into that mode of creativity, that creative flow, we're creating the solution. Yeah. When somebody comes in and says, take this, change this, do that, we're solving a problem. That's that shift where you go from, you know, cause when you're creating the solution, you're doing it the way that your rhythms are doing it. Yeah. You know? And I think back, I do enjoy when a client comes back and says, oh, we don't like the color red. And you're like, okay, let's figure this out. Like, and you go and you, you have to be creative about it. And that, yeah, you're right. It's a different, it's a different, there's a different joy in that. I wonder if that's what, that's the distinction between successful artists and unsuccessful artists, which I don't really think there's any unsuccessful artists. I think there's just artists that were overlooked. And it's that staying in that place of creating the solution. And then when it comes to solving the problem for your client, they break down and it almost like self-sabotage in a way. Yeah. I think that's probably what we see more often. But I think that's also that, that that's a lot of what we've got going on here too, that we're, we're, you know, creating the solution for ourselves. Yeah. Clearly. Without any of the expectation. And that as soon as we start to think about what somebody else, about the, the person that's going to be interacting with it, like listening to it or go to the website or the sponsor or the sponsors, we're then shifting over to problem solving. That's a hard transition to be in. And that's that, I think that's that decision to go from, let's do this just to fuck around. And then, okay, now let's start making this something that, let's be a little more serious about it. Yeah. Which maybe that's just the mindset you have to get to. You have to get, maybe it's just, you have to accept that in order to grow, you have to shift from creating the solution to solving the problem so that you can get back to creating more solutions. I worked one place and I had a great time. I was doing a little bit of both creative and problem solving. And someone took notice at another business and said, Hey, I'd like to, I'd like for you to bring that over here. And I'm like, okay, great. So I go over there and I just do what I do. I went and I just was creative day one. Like, I'm like, Oh cool. This is awesome. Like they want me to be creative and just do my thing. And then they come in and say, Oh no, we need you to do it this way, this way, this way, this way, this way. And like, your pacing and your edits are too fast and we need to see this much longer on screen. Uh, we don't like that kind of cool hip music. We like this other 80s synthesizer music or whatever it is. I always look back at that as that. That's when I shifted over to problem solving. Cause I realized, Oh, I have someone that expects something a certain way. Let me do it that way. But well, as well as I can and make it look good and still be proud of it, but not something that I would go and like show off or share. Cause it's like, well, that's not my style, but I did it that style. And I feel like that job actually prepared me for the corporate clients that come back with revisions, the, you know, the 18 people that have differing opinions and, and you're just trying to figure out, okay, well, how do I make all these people happy by refining this edit that I gave them? So yes, I'm doing the creative part at the beginning, but I still keep that, you know, in the back of my mind, like, what are they going to have a problem with? Yeah. I can see that. I can see that separation between the two and I enjoy both. I wonder if that's going to, if that insights into things like that, solving the problem of why has this happened to me this way? That's the power of insight in that you then can sort of, you can look at it and define what it is that's happening so that you feel like you have a little more control of it. And it's like, like, I'm curious and I want to check back with you on that is that thinking about that as when you're editing, you're, you're creating a solution. And then when you have to shift over to either running your business or talking to clients, whatever, that you're solving a problem. And that I think what would be curious is how it's not that you can do one, but not the other. And it's not that those two need to be done simultaneously. It's that you have to sort of balance it. It's like macros, right? You need certain number of carbohydrates, certain number of fats, right? And so you have to manage that. So if you get to a point where you're problem solving to, let's say to this percentage of the day, then you know, okay, in order to keep me from burning out, in order to keep me active in this world, doing what I do, I need to go create some solutions. Wow. You know? I think I'm going to overthink that now. Well, no, you don't. Well, you can overthink it all you want. I know, well I know, but I'm going to be looking for that. I'm going to be sitting down writing percentage. I mean, we do it with our diets, right? I mean, it's the same kind of thing. It's like, oh, then I won't do it then. There you go. Yeah. I'll think about it once and then I'll say, oh, Monday I'll start. I'll do it on Monday. Yeah. Yeah. For until noon. Yeah. Until noon. Until lunch. I'll have a rough day. Until those revisions come in. I worked out. I had my egg whites. 12 o'clock, let's go to Whataburger. Yeah. I'll start Tuesday. Yeah. And then Tuesday comes, you're like, I'll start next week. I guess that's maybe that's the-- that might be the happy medium that I've found at the moment. That's what I was curious about. Yeah. Just even like hearing you talk about it, just it was like, you know, the-- and excitement for people is on a spectrum, right? But I could tell that just by how you were communicating what it was you're doing and what it was you're experiencing, it was back where you were doing it. Yeah. And you were sort of narrating that experience of flow. It's like when you go outside on the weekend and you smell somebody's cooking barbecue, right? You're like, oh, man, I love barbecue, right? And so for that very moment, you're having barbecue, even though you're not eating it, right? You're getting all those reminders of what it's like, which is-- I mean, that's why one of the things we do in therapy is narrative therapy. I mean, that's-- people can go through and share their narrative. It allows them to re-experience it in a different way. That's interesting. Yeah. No, I've realized that about myself. If we end up talking about anything that I'm like super focused on-- and I'm sure it's the same exact thing with you. Like if we start talking about mental health or a specific thing, it's the same. I can see it in you. You're super into it. I'm not as wide on my studies. You read a lot. I've invested my free time in watching videos about editing, watching things about things. And if it's not even about editing, I'm watching a video and paying attention to the editing. Yeah. My mind is just all in right now. It's almost like I re-fell in love with it. Yeah. But it's been interesting. Like I said, the puzzle pieces, I'm thinking about editing them. This right now, I'm thinking about-- obviously, we're talking about it, but I'm thinking about the recording of this and how we're going to chop it. Dang, we already got to 40 minutes. Yeah, see? We're in that flow. You didn't even know it. Yeah, that's crazy. I was watching the time. That's wild. That'll be $150, by the way. Yeah. Well, if we get to 50, it's like more, right? Yeah. I'll send it in first. Yes. I've noticed that because I'm trying to get out more and network more. And I've realized I'm like, all right, I have to actually be in the mood. And we kind of need to talk about something that I'm actually interested in. Yeah. Which is selfish. That's not selfish. Selfishness is a funny thing. First off, it's like shame-based. It's just like anything else. There's no bad emotion. There's just emotions. And there's criticism that can be constructive criticism and-- Harsh.--harsh criticism, right? When you think about if I'm being selfish about something, it's like telling the world that I'm taking away from somebody something I'm doing for myself. Selfishness is a funny thing. Very rarely do people look at somebody and go, oh, they're being selfish. I mean, there are times when people do that and they're like, they're being selfish. But it's the difference between the things that we do. Like how many things-- wouldn't it be great to know how many things that we do that we knew 100% nobody thought was being selfish? Mm-hmm. That'd be a weird world, wouldn't it? Yeah. So like doing the time you're editing, right, it's not-- you're not being selfish or going and spending time with other creatives to sort of nurture that part of you. That's not selfish. That's self-care. Because if you don't do that, if you do everything out of the fear that it might be construed as selfish, then you're never taking care of yourself and you're done. You're finished. That's interesting. I guess I wonder if the socializing with other creatives is actually part of the formula, like you said, like the problem-solving, the creative flow, and then I don't know if it's like talking about it is part of the-- I think it would be.--the flow itself. I think it would be. I think there's a difference between connecting with people that do the same thing you're doing to sort of share in ideas is different from people that go to like seminars to learn how other people are doing things because that gets back to the let me sell you on how I'm doing this. Do this one thing and you'll get 3,000 views by the end of the day. These five things, these top five things. These top five things, yeah. When are we going to do a top five episode? I actually had an idea for that and I wanted to share that with you. I don't know if we want to-- we only got a minute left here on that deal. I think we can wrap up and start another one if you want. Okay, yeah. I got to use the restroom. While Danny takes a bathroom break, we hope you enjoyed this episode. If you think someone else would get a kick out of what these fools are saying, feel free to share it, but don't tell them. They get weird about stuff like that.